I propose a new rule:

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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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I propose a new rule:

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

If your team is losing, and you switch into spec only to sit and trash talk your team, you should receive some kind of punishment as it's basically the same thing as sabotaging.

SolidState (BradCage) totally screwed us over on Dria tonight, the core drains were getting low, the other team had a good break, and he went to spec to do just this. After he left we actually had a couple of decent chances at last minute comeback that probably would have worked had he stayed on our team.

I just see this as another way to abuse spectate mode.

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captainsnarf
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by captainsnarf »

He's toxic. He's lucky I'm not admin because I would have IP banned him already.

He should have been kicked last night.
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pooty
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by pooty »

Sadly the chat log doesn't capture Spectator comments? https://www.omnipotents.com/utstats/cha ... match=2430 Doesn't seem to be an option to enable that.. He left after 22 minutes, match lasted 36 minutes. Then based on the screenshot continued to bitch/whine afterwards...
And it looks like you picked up Big_Floppies as a result, a trade I'd take all day long and twice on Sundays...

We can't force him to play. Yes, he's chatting while spec'ing. However, I don't think it falls under "spamming chat".
Is he more or less being an ass? Yes. And I get its frustrating (been that way for me on the server the last 2-3 days too) But...

Based on this, I don't see anything bannable just yet; it seems Enyo was on maybe he can chime in.
If you don't want to see his chat, you can mute him. And there's always kick voting.... you only need 31% of the players to kick vote someone off... IMO that's pretty low lets not abuse it. On the match in question 6-7 kick votes would have done it....

If he repeatedly spams the chat, one of the admins can mute him for everyone.

I will be happy to give him a warning next time I am on...if his spec comments continue disturb the play, I'll mute or llama him for a while... He often berates other players, especially newer ones or ones he doesn't think are playing up to par (strangely enough he does that himself by being a quitter). So need definitely needs a warning...everyone gets frustrated, and if he can't shape up, then we will take the next step. Fair enough?
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McLovin
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by McLovin »

Definitely being an ass.

I get the frustration level one can get with their team. Whether it's justified or sheer emotional over-charge, I've been there several times. I usually rage-quit ala GTKY style and leave. Maybe a parting vocal showing my displeasure with my team. Hanging around and furthering the insult is a bit over the top and bad form overall.

I'll have to brush up on my admin commands and learn how to mute people if I see it happening.

For admins:
mutate uam_mute <name or number> Stops the player communicating, not a word.
mutate uam_unmute <name or number>

Not sure if these commands are for the current session or if they are permanent. Anyone wanna be my guinea pig to try these out on? Bueller... Bueller..., LOL
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

I guess the rules are the rules. This specific scenario seemed to be pretty parallel to sandbagging/sabotaging but it looks like the spectating loophole is enough to get by.

Speaking more broadly, I'm with McLovin in that I'd like to see more "non-lethals" used as far as punishment... Llama, bitch slap, session kick and so on. I don't think most people need a ban in a game that's deep into the endangered species list, but behavior modification is real and works! The server even has "dont be a dick" in the ticker yet SolidState, Kronix and Cleetus get to be centerstage on the server's atmosphere. I'd take a good bet that if these actions were used on players like these they'd learn to cool it pretty quick.
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by captainsnarf »

Yeah, I'm all for the non-lethals. I would reserve session kick for seriously bad behavior. Terramerge was session kicked for team switching and I haven't seen him back since. It was a rule violation true but it was done in good faith. It's not like he was switching to the winning team. At the same time there's no point having rules if they aren't enforced. Then they are just guidelines. A non-lethal would have worked better, and we might still have terra around.
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by pooty »

I want to be clear on Terramerge. He switched. It was pointed out to him by the Admins (Enyo and I were both on), that what he did was wrong. He proceeded to argue/bitch and then got kicked, so maybe he initially switched in good faith, but when an Admin tells you No, switch back and you don't do it. Get session kicked. He wasn't banned. IMO he was kicked more for his response to being told No, than the team switch as well. And if Terramerge is still holding a grudge over that after this time..sheesh.

The problem with allowing "good faith" team switching is what happens when you don't agree? Or when say Terramerge switches, his old team gets Cleetus and then the new team's next pickup is Leon/Tater/Enyo? Now the team Terramerge left is going to be pissed as its unbalanced. This is simply why the rule of play on the team the server puts you on...including if the server switches you. This way there's no real judgement involved its more or less random.
he server even has "dont be a dick" in the ticker yet SolidState, Kronix and Cleetus get to be centerstage on the server's atmosphere. I'd take a good bet that if these actions were used on players like these they'd learn to cool it pretty quick.
Solid bitches quite a bit, and Kronix bitches in game about game play (which even swearing and calling people shit stains..is allowed), Cleetus complains to... I'll let the other admins chime in but I have no issues with people complaining in game while playing about game play... Kronix for example usually plays hard as do I, Enyo and others while sometimes complaining/bitching....

Doing it while Spec'ing is different, you're not helping a team and as I've said that will get some discipline (llama, mute, kick).
We aren't going to police other players calling you a 'goat fucking shit stain" (Actual GTKU quote BTW). Or telling you you're dumb for driving the mino in the trench on minus....while playing. In this case, with Solid, I think a few comments are fine. But damn it if you're going to spec and type, you might as well play...and more than few (say 3-4) comments is going to get you silenced.

From the rules: "Our game servers are not the right place to discuss of our rules, extensive map complaints, politics or generally any drawn out bitching" Key here being drawn out....

And let me play devil's advocate for a minute:
viewtopic.php?p=1670&sid=fa6dc4ea6a3537 ... 9a6d#p1670
Should we discipline "dirty" play, spamming the core or strategically spamming initial nodes (aka Xexx move)? Those are kind of a dick move too... and I think we've all done one or more from time to time. Its really about repeat offenders.

So yes, at times the rules are loosely enforced. I'd say the two things that we are (or at least me) are really strict on (aside from cheating/haxx):
1. Sitting idle - normally the server boots you but you can open the menu and sit. If you're going to be AFK, then simple disconnect and reconnect or get kicked.
2. Mouthing off, or disobeying the admins. (See Terramerge above). His initial team switch wasn't going to get him any discipline (other than to switch back) but his reaction got him a kick.
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

Doing it while Spec'ing is different, you're not helping a team and as I've said that will get some discipline (llama, mute, kick).
We aren't going to police other players calling you a 'goat fucking shit stain" (Actual GTKU quote BTW). Or telling you you're dumb for driving the mino in the trench on minus....while playing. In this case, with Solid, I think a few comments are fine. But damn it if you're going to spec and type, you might as well play...and more than few (say 3-4) comments is going to get you silenced.
Yes this is great. Umps can (and should) kick out spectators too
And let me play devil's advocate for a minute:
viewtopic.php?p=1670&sid=fa6dc4ea6a3537 ... 9a6d#p1670
Should we discipline "dirty" play, spamming the core or strategically spamming initial nodes (aka Xexx move)? Those are kind of a dick move too... and I think we've all done one or more from time to time. Its really about repeat offenders.
If qualifies as being a dick, then YES, tell me I can't do it and I won't. Until then, if I have a fast flyer I'm going to pick up the other team's power weapons too, especially if the game has moved to the enemy's side of the map (and while half of the server still hasn't figured out where they spawn).
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pooty
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by pooty »

If qualifies as being a dick, then YES, tell me I can't do it and I won't.
It kind of does, but IMO, its not an "offense" because its game based strategy.. if you're on the other side of the map engaging the enemy, you're not building nodes...

My point was plenty of actions (gameplay, comments) etc. could fall under the catch all Don't be a dick rule...
I don't want, and I don't think anyone wants to have any heavy handed enforcement..its sucks for the admins and it potentially alienates players... I'd rather let someone slide (I have a soft spot for noobies..letting them sort of figure it out as they go vs. kicking them), then be in a rush to boot them.

And remember kick vote threshold is pretty low at 30%, so with a 8 v. 8 game 5 kick votes from players boots someone. Not 100% sure that works on Specs though...

And Like I said, I have no problem warning Solid. My other pet peeve is chat/spec bitching not related to the current game play, so either like Solid just bitching about players, especially ones he doesn't even know (noobs), is bad, as well as lengthy complaining about server, or maps during the game. I'm ok with hey I hate this map, this maps sucks balls, whatever, but if you want to bitch/complain and ask a bunch of stuff... its why the forum is here (and all of you reading this know that)... But game time is game time.

I will add that at the moment:
No one is banned from the server (I removed all previous bans -- so yes Paminator could play now)
Only 1 person is llama'd and they aren't regular.
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captainsnarf
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Re: I propose a new rule:

Post by captainsnarf »

pooty wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:42 am And let me play devil's advocate for a minute:
viewtopic.php?p=1670&sid=fa6dc4ea6a3537 ... 9a6d#p1670
Should we discipline "dirty" play, spamming the core or strategically spamming initial nodes (aka Xexx move)? Those are kind of a dick move too... and I think we've all done one or more from time to time. Its really about repeat offenders.
Dirty play is fine imo. it can be good strategy. Spamming the core? Totally fine, as long as you actually play the game, meaning you also go after the primary and go for core damage. It's no fun when they take the map in 2 minutes and spawn kill for the remaining 20. Just win already. Same goes for spamming locked nodes. You can always spawn somewhere else. Many times they end up on the wrong side of the map hitting a locked node so it's not such a great strategy anyway. Like most things, it depends.

Berating your own team, that's not strategy. That's a dick move™.
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