Balance woes lately...

[pooty]

So one AFD just a minute ago:

Code: Select all

EvenMatchDebug: Balancing team sizes and PPH...
EvenMatchDebug: Odd player count, randomly assigning Joe&Kameltoe to blue (93.29 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning leon (423.35 PPH) and GAREAU (395.01 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: leon will be on red (now 423.35 PPH), GAREAU will be on blue (now 488.31 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Xexx (352.24 PPH) and BIG_FloPPies (299.69 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Xexx will be on red (now 775.59 PPH), BIG_FloPPies will be on blue (now 788.00 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Eny)o( (288.69 PPH) and sn)o(rf (280.13 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Eny)o( will be on red (now 1064.27 PPH), sn)o(rf will be on blue (now 1068.13 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH (231.76 PPH) and BUSCHMASTER (212.02 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH will be on red (now 1296.03 PPH), BUSCHMASTER will be on blue (now 1280.15 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Cornbread (188.36 PPH) and DW>RESURRECTION (167.92 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Cornbread will be on blue (now 1468.52 PPH), DW>RESURRECTION will be on red (now 1463.95 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning 11:11 (157.37 PPH) and p)o(Oty (155.62 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: 11:11 will be on red (now 1621.32 PPH), p)o(Oty will be on blue (now 1624.14 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Kayla (141.71 PPH) and BLA$TER (137.96 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Kayla will be on red (now 1763.03 PPH), BLA$TER will be on blue (now 1762.10 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Coldcut (124.98 PPH) and Player16 (93.91 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Coldcut will be on blue (now 1887.08 PPH), Player16 will be on red (now 1856.95 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Red team size 8, combined PPH 1856.95
EvenMatchDebug: Blue team size 9, combined PPH 1887.08

Perhaps players are getting, dare I say, too many points for nodes/linking?

[pooty]

AJY:

Code: Select all

EvenMatchDebug: Balancing team sizes and PPH...
EvenMatchDebug: Odd player count, randomly assigning Coldcut to blue (83.39 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning leon (417.33 PPH) and Eny)o( (415.04 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: leon will be on red (now 417.33 PPH), Eny)o( will be on blue (now 498.43 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning sn)o(rf (410.40 PPH) and Xexx (329.21 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: sn)o(rf will be on red (now 827.72 PPH), Xexx will be on blue (now 827.64 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning BUSCHMASTER (311.00 PPH) and Cornbread (257.06 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: BUSCHMASTER will be on blue (now 1138.64 PPH), Cornbread will be on red (now 1084.78 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning nautikal (254.54 PPH) and YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH (231.20 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: nautikal will be on red (now 1339.32 PPH), YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH will be on blue (now 1369.84 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning p)o(Oty (213.52 PPH) and crossdefault (191.60 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: p)o(Oty will be on red (now 1552.84 PPH), crossdefault will be on blue (now 1561.45 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Javiar (184.75 PPH) and BLA$TER (116.56 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Javiar will be on red (now 1737.59 PPH), BLA$TER will be on blue (now 1678.01 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Red team size 6, combined PPH 1737.59
EvenMatchDebug: Blue team size 7, combined PPH 1678.01

[Enyo]

Oh, no... I know what happened on AFD. This was only the 2nd time played. First time teams were terrible, Xexx was able to run the map with a wyvern and scored very high. I could never get a flyer so scored pretty low. It balanced based on map numbers only it seems. I thought overall PPH was supposed to come into play too?

Not sure how Xexx's PPH is so low for AJY thought.

[pooty]

I think the Multiplier needs to be on. As nautikal said, the top players do have a multiplier effect.

However, I think here's a problem, that we can fix:
EvenMatchDebug: Odd player count, randomly assigning Joe&Kameltoe to blue (93.29 PPH)

On uneven teams its overvaluing the bottom feeder!

EvenMatchDebug: Assigning leon (423.35 PPH) and GAREAU (395.01 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: leon will be on red (now 423.35 PPH), GAREAU will be on blue (now 488.31 PPH)

So, its flawed (IMO), that it now counts the bottom feeder to push the #2 player to 1. Look at how this goes because that measely 93 points.
EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Xexx (352.24 PPH) and BIG_FloPPies (299.69 PPH)
EvenMatchDebug: Xexx will be on red (now 775.59 PPH), BIG_FloPPies will be on blue (now 788.00 PPH)
Other team would have gotten Xexx instead if it didn't count JKT first! Instead its saying we have you the #2 player and shit stain, so the other team would get the better player of the two, in some cases like here, for at least the next 2 or 3 players, more if the stain has more points..
So usually it goes (1,2), (4,3), (6,5), except with shit stain effect, its (1,2+stain), (3,4) (5,6)... the stain skews the teams the wrong way..

EvenMatchDebug: Assigning Eny)o( (288.69 PPH) and sn)o(rf (280.13 PPH)
Other team would have likely gotten Enyo instead if it didn't count JKT first(I'd have to work the math but tired right now
EvenMatchDebug: Eny)o( will be on red (now 1064.27 PPH), sn)o(rf will be on blue (now 1068.13 PPH)


So adding the bottom feeder first on oddly numbered teams is just wrong, its skewing the rest of the picks. The bottom feeder should just be added randomly at the end. Should be an easy fix.

[pooty]

I thought overall PPH was supposed to come into play too?

It does but its an average type calculation. So if normally you're a 300 pt player, but you get fubar'd and score 100 on the map, you'll end up being 200. Does make me wonder if there shouldn't be a higher weighting (maybe there is) on the overall PPH?

[Enyo]

So adding the bottom feeder first on oddly numbered teams is just wrong, its skewing the rest of the picks. The bottom feeder should just be added randomly at the end. Should be an easy fix.

You beat me to it... I was just about to ask if it was doing that.

[Enyo]

I thought overall PPH was supposed to come into play too?

It does but its an average type calculation. So if normally you're a 300 pt player, but you get fubar'd and score 100 on the map, you'll end up being 200. Does make me wonder if there shouldn't be a higher weighting (maybe there is) on the overall PPH?

Yes it should have more weight than the map PPH. A bad team can cause a good player to score poorly on a map. And a good team helps boost good players' scores. In fact, I'm not so sure it should be weighted on anything other than a player's overall PPH if we're trying to dial in scoring to help the balancer. One really bad round or two on a particular map could then rank a good player way too low. Vice versa for bad players.

I mean, let's be honest... good players are good at all the maps. And bad players are bad almost all the time, and no matter the map. So, why should much if any weight at all be given to individual map PPH?

[pooty]

Probably explains why we've seen where a top player ends up with a very weak middle, if the odd player was say ~150 pts, you'd get the second pick all the way through if the points were close... which would make it unbalanced.

[captainsnarf]

Balancer aside, You had better players and more players and two admins. Someone could have switched teams.

[pooty]

I think the Multiplier needs to be on. As nautikal said, the top players do have a multiplier effect.

I think this true, especially with the "Enyo Effect", hear me out.
When there's a few of the top tier players, they do have multiplier effect. For example, if Xexx/Leon/Enyo etc is on a team with say a few players that get decent scores but are more campers/snipers/tank drivers... the top tier player can overcome that.. but if you're on a team where now say I know top tier mutlipler players will be there to hit the right nodes, vs me having to do it. Its part of the team work aspect. Even now with linking points, there's players who cooperate more, and more importantly know how to work well as a team. Even if you're not in top multiplier you still may have one if you're a player deemed one standard deviation above the mendoza line.