Balancer Test Results!!

General Comments, Questions about all things OmnipotentS that don't go in other topics/forums
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Balancer Test Results!!

Post by pooty »

Below are the Margin of victory. That is four point is 4-0 win. Three point is 4-1, two is either 3-1 or 4-2, and one point is 3-2 Victory. Team is irrelevant (whether red or blue won doesn't matter, Record all time is Red 223 Wins, Blue 203 and server ignores your client team preference)

Two weeks with no balancer: Jun4 - Jun18
FourPoint,ThreePoint,TwoPoint,OnePoint
59,79,43,22

203 Matches (rounded %)
Four Point: 29%
Three Point: 39%
Two Point: 22%
One Point: 11%

Two weeks with EvenMatch Balancer Jun19-Jul3
FourPoint,ThreePoint,TwoPoint,OnePoint
46,57,37,28

168 Matches (rounded %)
Four Point: 27%
Three Point: 34%
Two Point: 22%
One Point: 16%

So what does this mean? (Any Data scientists/Stats people want to chime in...feel free)
To me I don't see much of a difference with the Balancer on. 4-0 blowout happen about the same +/- 2% which IMO Isn't really significant. Perhaps the balancer is doing something as the one point matches (eg. matches lost by only 1pt ) was a bit higher with the Balancer at +%5. But mostly the distribution is nearly identical...

And for you IT people it was fun SQL query to write, as match totals have to be calculated from a running score table....

I'm inclined to leave it on, as I feel it helps slightly, doesn't have much overhead. But I don't see much benefit to it as is...you'd think there would have been a greater impact... I am not even sure the distribution difference is statistically significant given the small sample size.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by pooty »

So it was suggested to re-run the numbers...the stats DB keeps matches with 3 or more humans. So to avoid any data dilution by Helper-Bot, I've re run the numbers with numplayer > 9 so 5v5 or larger; I did add a couple of days included with balancer on..so the raw numbers aren't relevant just the percentages.

5v5

Balancer On: Four(count,%), Three, Two, One point matches, Total
24 0.2474 35 0.3608 21 0.2165 17 0.1753 97
Balancer Off:Four, Three, Two, One point matches, Total
39 0.2746 58 0.4085 33 0.2324 11 0.0775 142

6v6 (or larger):
Balancer ON 21 0.2386 32 0.3636 19 0.2159 16 0.1818 88
Balancer OFF 35 0.2734 55 0.4297 27 0.2109 11 0.0859 128

8v8:(or larger)
Balancer ON 15 0.2174 27 0.3913 13 0.1884 14 0.2029 69
Balancer OFF 28 0.2642 47 0.4434 21 0.1981 10 0.0943 106

10v10 (or larger)
Balancer ON 7 0.1458 20 0.4167 10 0.2083 11 0.2292 48
Balancer OFF 18 0.2338 34 0.4416 16 0.2078 9 0.1169 77

So, that's a major difference, as you can see as the number of players increase, the number of blowouts (4-0) are much higher with balancer off, and 1 pt matches are higher with balancer ON. More players likely decrease the "Enyo Effect" of certain good players that can really skew the performance on small team -- point here is a really good player is more effective on a smaller team, and likewise in a 4v4 match, a really bad noob, hurts quite a bit the other way.
User avatar
trans_lux
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:46 am
Server Sponsor: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by trans_lux »

Nice work thanks for taking the time to put this together.
Interesting stuff, doesn't always feel this way but the data doesn't lie.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by pooty »

It will hardly ever be close to perfect:
1. Teamwork-some players works better together
2. Individual performance varies day by day, even on a map. I might get a nice PPH using the mino on Minus, but if next game I don't get it, I won't be as effective (at least points wise).
3. Joins/Leaves - People join or leave which then creates an imbalance which really can't be accounted for unless there's a mid round shuffle--which IMO is universally hated.
4. Don't underestimate noobs/poor players wasting power vehicles... If Enyo is on your team you want him in that Falcon. You don't want some noob taking the mino for a suicide run -- like playing in the lakebed on dria or trenches in Minus.
ProtoDroidBot
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:21 pm

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by ProtoDroidBot »

Silly question, but how are noobs supposed to get better with the power vehicles if there is a perception of that they are wasting them? Seems a bit unfair to assume everyone can use a power vehicle exactly the same as the "pro players" and creates a semi-toxic environment in a 17 year old game where we (mostly) play to have fun.
User avatar
McLovin
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:54 pm
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by McLovin »

ProtoDroidBot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:15 pm Silly question, but how are noobs supposed to get better with the power vehicles if there is a perception of that they are wasting them? ...
I think it depends on the time frame. When it's a mid evening match that is evenly matched and tensions are running high, that is not the time for noobs to be developing their skills. They should do it when it is mid-afternoon when the server is vacant and play against the bots.
User avatar
Tater
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:11 am

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by Tater »

ProtoDroidBot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:15 pm Silly question, but how are noobs supposed to get better with the power vehicles if there is a perception of that they are wasting them? Seems a bit unfair to assume everyone can use a power vehicle exactly the same as the "pro players" and creates a semi-toxic environment in a 17 year old game where we (mostly) play to have fun.
What Mclovin said is true, but you can also use a UT cache extractor. As long as you have played on a map at least once, you can run the .exe to pull those maps / vehicles out of your cache and into your UT folder so that you can play them in Instant Action.

I agree it does create a toxic learning curve for many newbies, which is really the reason we see some names on the server once and never again. The server (and sometimes certain people) are very non-friendly to new players.

If you want to use the cache extractor I'm talking about, I've uploaded the one I use to Google Drive if you want to download:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
place both of those files inside of you're UT folder then you should be able to run the .exe, it'll create a .txt of the files it extracts.
I am a Robot
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:17 pm

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by I am a Robot »

Hey thx! ive been looking for the map downloader thing so i can get better at those custom vehicles and maps u guys have!
User avatar
YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:03 pm
Server Sponsor: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

ProtoDroidBot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:15 pm Silly question, but how are noobs supposed to get better with the power vehicles if there is a perception of that they are wasting them? Seems a bit unfair to assume everyone can use a power vehicle exactly the same as the "pro players" and creates a semi-toxic environment in a 17 year old game where we (mostly) play to have fun.
Hey a good idea is to spec people, or ride 2nd seat and be a gunner. Usually this is what you should do:

Minotaur
-Ride as a gunner and help kill flyers/infantry. Only use the lasers (3rd seat) if you absolutely have to as it gives away your location
-Stay near it with a link tank or a turret tank to keep flyers away

Ion Tank on ONS-TanksALot
Don't be a gunner in this one, just stay with it and link it

A huge part of being in the super weapons isn't so much your skill as it is knowing where to be and when. There are certain spots where theres some optimal alley/opening that people have found over the years. You can learn this pretty quick by watching or assisting. There isn't a lot of skill in firing an over powered weapon at enemies, you just have to know the right position.

Also, it's not overall skill for each vehicle, it's by map. For example I like to play the Ion Tank on TanksALot and have worked on it, but don't really care for it on other maps. With the Mino I'll take it for Minus but am still practicing on Nevermore so if someone better is on my team I'll let them have it.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Balancer Test Results!!

Post by pooty »

ProtoDroidBot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:15 pm Silly question, but how are noobs supposed to get better with the power vehicles if there is a perception of that they are wasting them? Seems a bit unfair to assume everyone can use a power vehicle exactly the same as the "pro players" and creates a semi-toxic environment in a 17 year old game where we (mostly) play to have fun.
Practice, Practice, Practice. I think McLovin said it, during peak time isn't the best time to try to develop/hone your mino skills if you've barely driven it. My point was if you do that, the power of that vehicle is wasted (say if you crash into something or are in a position where you can't bring the power to bear). So say on Minus you're in the trench (you can hit basically one node and can't move) vs. in the "dognuts" position where you can hit potentially 4 nodes fairly easily -- going to make an impact on the match outcome.

For offline play, you can use the cache extractor, or download them from the redirect: https://www.omnipotents.com/omni-ut2004-redirect/
They are compressed in UZ2 format, and UT comes with a command line to extract them its in the UT2004/System directory ucc decompress. Cache extractor is probably easier than all that dos command line stuff though. I use this one https://www.fileplanet.com/archive/p-35 ... tor-v1-5-0
Post Reply