Vehicle Development guidelines....

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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

captainsnarf wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:03 pm
YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:50 pm
Super Sanka wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:20 pm Yes it's different because driver skill is what makes those vehicles deadly. Mino is just inherently more powerful and can kill 90% of things in one hit. I actually think the splash damage should be reduced and reward accuracy more. Right now the only thing that separates bad minos from good ones is map and game knowledge.
Nooo! Leave the splash damage. There are specific shots that we regularly use which require splash damage. It's an element of the game now.
It's not a good element :lol: Park the mino in the dognuts spot only works with the omnituar. Don't you get tired of the same maps with the same strategies? I liked the old mino better, or even the lobreaker. At least you have to aim with those.
Nah man... that's why people play any sport over and over.

One strategy that I've only seen people wise-up to a few times: On D-Junkyard, a lot of the nodes can't be hit with mino splash damage. UNLESS a friendly flyer is above it, then shoot your friend and the splash will get the node. Sometimes I hover over the node with a Wasp and say "mino, shoot me" and they don't. I think Enyo did once and it worked out.
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pooty
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by pooty »

So based on Enyo's comments on the Basilisk thread.

Want to discuss more guidelines around anti-air limits. We want to keep the OP stuff to a minimum... and balanced.

So for anti-air we have:
Damage is straight up points, momementum can impact damage, Range is in UU
Keep in mind for vehicles embedded in the map can vary, part of the reason we pulled them in to files so that they are standardized.
Confirmed:
Avril - 200 pts
Rail Tank one shot, 350 damage, 50000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 2.5s
Dark Rail Tank, same as RailTank
HellHound TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 2.5s (fires faster at reduced damage)
Alligator TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 3s (fires faster at reduced damage)
Ballista TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 23000 Range, 1 / 3s (fires faster at reduced damage)

Lasers
Damage = (DamageMin + Rand(DamageMax - DamageMin));

KingHellHound 20-22 Damage, 100 momentum, Range 80000, 5.55 beams/s, ~115 pts/s
Armadillio aka Troop Carrier: 50-70 Damage, 1 momentum (default for Weapon),Range 20000, 5 beams/s, ~300 pts/s
Hurricane, 35-55, 1 Momentum, Range 20000, 5 beams/s, 280 pts/s
Mino Lasers. 20-20, 500 momentum, Range 80000, 5.55 beams/s, 111 pts/s

Miniguns
Damage = (DamageMin + Rand(DamageMax - DamageMin));
(I need to double check, I need to account for tick rate..)
Mino MiniGun 19-19, 1 Momentum, Range 15000, 10 bullets/s, ~190 pts/s
Badger MiniGun 15-15, 1 Momentum, Range 15000, 10/s, ~150 pts/s
Goliath/II Turret Minigun, 17-17, 1 Momentum, Range 15000 (GI), 28672 (G2), 10/s, ~170 pts/s

Basilisk Main fire: TBD, has to do with tick rate..


Battery - 250? + some extra shocks on the way in?


Later I'll verify more later numbers above are code verified. but we can set an upper limit on damage per sec, for those. Mostly I think the minigun/lasers are pretty good now, as are most others.... Railtank being king of the hill, and make sure nothing goes over it.

Now Projectiles are different matter, eg. Goliath/mino shots etc. As they are independent projectiles once fire vs. hit scans, and the limits don't apply because of the aiming involved. Meaning hitting nimble fliers in GoliathII is much harder than instant twin beams.

I don't see any need to increase anything, just documenting for any future changes.
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Enyo
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by Enyo »

Does the Arbiter (flying Rail Tank) do the same damage as a regular Rail Tank?

Don't forget the Dark Rail Tank... and does it do the same damage as regular Rail Tank? Seems to maybe do a little less???
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Super Sanka
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by Super Sanka »

Are the Ballista beams changed? In my head the sniperbeam feels like it does roughly 450 damage fully charged...they feel more powerful fully charged than regular twinbeams.
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

Wait so the mino lasers are more powerful than the minigun? I had it backward...
Edit: nevermind. Rate of fire is a thing.
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pooty
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by pooty »

So I was digging through the code yesterday, for minigun (basilisk uses same type of firing). This https://wiki.unrealadmin.org/Netspeed_Tutorial_(UT) implies that TickRate messes with minigun and similar weapons. However, I don't see any thing in the code that backs that up? Maybe I missed it but all the code is time based http://kos.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de ... ire.html#6

Code: Select all

 function ModeTick(float dt)
    {
        FireTime += dt;
        RollSpeed = (FireTime/WindUpTime) * MaxRollSpeed;

        if ( !bIsFiring )
        {
            GotoState('WindDown');
            return;
        }

        if (RollSpeed >= MaxRollSpeed)
        {
            RollSpeed = MaxRollSpeed;
            FireTime = WindUpTime;
            Gun.UpdateRoll(dt, RollSpeed, ThisModeNum);
            GotoState('FireLoop');
            return;
        }

        Gun.UpdateRoll(dt, RollSpeed, ThisModeNum);
    }
FireTime is dependent on DeltaTime (20 tick, then DT = 1s/20, 30 tick 1s/30 ) windup time is 0.27
So I guess it hits the second if, a few more times, but in FireLoop

Code: Select all

state FireLoop
{
    function BeginState()
    {
        NextFireTime = Level.TimeSeconds - 0.1; //fire now!
        PlayAmbientSound(FiringSound);
        ClientPlayForceFeedback(FiringForce);  // jdf
        Gun.LoopAnim(FireLoopAnim, FireLoopAnimRate, TweenTime);
        Gun.SpawnShells(RoundsPerRotation*BarrelRotationsPerSec);
    }
BarrelRotationsPerSec=3.000000
RoundsPerRotation=5

Implies, 15 bullets a sec at 7-8 damage. Not sure where tick rate skews the graph like in the picture on the netspeed tutorial. I could see a straightline faster tick more firing, but it seems code is all seconds based. NextFireTime = Level.TimeSeconds - 0.1; //fire now!
Which implies fires with .1s interval would only be 10 bullets a sec. Code is bit confusing as it has all the effects/animations which I don't care about.
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pooty
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by pooty »

So another guideline:
For linking beams:
Green normal linking beam, generally the vehicle supportings linkers link stacking, meaning the output is a multiplier of the number of linkers.
For example in the Link Gun, Link Tank, Link Badger, LinkFlyer (Chupa), if you link those while they are linking, the healing/damage is increased usually by a factor of 0.5 to 1.5. So for link gun/tanks this not only increasing the linking (healing) but also the damage of all the other weapons (plasma) and even the turret on the link tank. With 5 linkers its pretty potent.

Purple typically a draining/healing/linking beam. Links/Heals/Damages (and heals while doing it). Doesn't support link stacking -- meaning if you link the Wraith/Odin, you heal the vehicle but it doesn't add to the link healing/damage output.

We do need another "color" for grappling beam (the boards have this, same with grapple gun -- should have different color (bright blue?) and maybe change the link beam appearance to be much different. I'd also argue the grapple gun should get changed to a different slot and not 5 (link gun -- that's used too often in ONS).
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

Yea that’d be great. I have a conspiracy theory that on maps with grapple guns, half the players don’t realize they’re grappling the nodes.
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by FuriousRabbit »

YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:35 pm Yea that’d be great. I have a conspiracy theory that on maps with grapple guns, half the players don’t realize they’re grappling the nodes.
Guilty. Until I notice and let loose a stream of profanity.
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Re: Vehicle Development guidelines....

Post by pooty »

Boards have a different beam style now. I should move that beam to the grapple gun, however most of the time grapple gun is embedded in the map, which requires a map edit.
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