Maps are too big

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captainsnarf
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Maps are too big

Post by captainsnarf »

We need more smaller maps. Even back in the heydays with full 32 player servers maps like Magic Isle were always long, slow slogs of driving a tank for two minutes before you even see another player.

Or maybe we do have more smaller maps but nobody votes for them? I think masterbath is ideally sized.
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infinitecat
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by infinitecat »

MTMU is obviously an ideal size and I've always considered the layout to be a minor Unreal masterpiece though its enjoyability has, IMHO, been lessened by the introduction one-shot, big-splash node killers.

There's no reason anyone should have to play a bad map, and there are plenty of "bad" maps lying fallow these days. Here's a list of the top ten most underplayed ones:

Hollon, Evergreen, Acerbus, ClassicEvilDead, Denum, Fullnecropolis, Crossfire, Deathdome, Unknownway, Panalesh.

Should someone with map-building skills be so inclined they could all be enhanced, or de-hanced, to smooth out the rough edges.

Panalesh, as an example, would appeal more towards those who desire instant action if the hills near the bases were minimized (like Junkyard) and all the remaining terrain was scooched a bit closer towards the center. (I realize that's harder to accomplish than it sounds.) Just spit-ballin'.
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TotalBurn
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by TotalBurn »

captainsnarf wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:55 am ...Magic Isle were always long, slow slogs of driving a tank for two minutes before you even see another player.
That map in my opinion is a flyer map and I am a shitty pilot. The problem is the distance from one node to the next is far. A map can be big in size, but what makes the difference is the distance between nodes. Remove a couple nodes from Nevermore and it would play similar to Magic.
infinitecat wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 am Here's a list of the top ten most underplayed ones:

Hollon, Evergreen, Acerbus, ClassicEvilDead, Denum, Fullnecropolis, Crossfire, Deathdome, Unknownway, Panalesh.

Should someone with map-building skills be so inclined they could all be enhanced, or de-hanced, to smooth out the rough edges.

Panalesh, as an example, would appeal more towards those who desire instant action if the hills near the bases were minimized (like Junkyard) and all the remaining terrain was scooched a bit closer towards the center. (I realize that's harder to accomplish than it sounds.) Just spit-ballin'.
Panalesh... You just named my love hate map. I love the visuals of the map and concepts. But the flow of the game is horrible for the reasons you stated. The hills and distance to some out of the way nodes make playing the map more work than fun. This is another map I would consider flyer dependent because driving or running is out of the question.

Deathdome is very spammy and if your team doesnt know the nodes & warps you are screwed. But the map offers non-stop action.
ClassicEvilDead also very spammy and the center node usually leads to OT
- -

Where is ONS-Dinora? That was a kick ass map back in the day and people loved playing it.
Image

Edit: Just played the map and quickly realized the weapon lockers are a problem. Only one node has a shock rifle and LG's are MIA.
Last edited by TotalBurn on Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pooty
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by pooty »

Thanks for all the input. I generally try to take maps that we don't play much and update them
Hollon, Fullnecropolis,Unknownway - Have been updated but not popular
Evergreen - Not sure what to do with this..its a big flyer map
Acerbus - Even larger, needs flyers and newer vehicles.
ClassicEvilDead, DeathDome - Not sure what I would change here... except may be remove Avrils...(If your whole team shoots avrils to the right, you can dead stop the other team from quickly getting to the first primary)
Crossfire vehicle updates
Panalesh - Really cool core/bases that don't serve much purpose. Big Flyer and fast tank map
Dinora - I had started an edit of Dinora and never finished it. I wanted to add some nodes "on the beach" and tweak the vehicles.
I've been looking at working on Adara (Canyon type map), Operahouse and a couple of others that are smaller. The bigger maps tend to make comebacks difficult and discourage players..


WRT to OP, most here want to sit and drive in a tank. The smaller maps don't get played, the newer ones (like the three updated ones above) don't get played -- there's a core group that doesn't seem to want to learn anything new. Its like oh, I can't just drive the mino to one spot and spam.. lets vote Minus, DJY, AJY, Minus, Old NVM, Dria - repeat. I think part of it with a new map, if the other team figures out a good strategy and whoops the other team people seemed to get jaded because they couldn't figure out a counter...

FYI Doing Terrain editing is pretty difficult with the editor it takes a fair amount of time to get it right and lots of trial and error, ie time. So I tend to focus on vehicle updates and minor updates...
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TotalBurn
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by TotalBurn »

Pooty I appreciate all of your work you put into mapping/editing. I dont play much on the server mostly cause no one is around all morning and afternoon etc. It sucks. There is a group of omni fans that only play for a small window each day. It happens to be the times when Im not avail.

Classic Evil Dead. I think the center node is the focal point. Constant battles. If I changed anything I would remove the warp to the upper level (removes campers) and I would remove the spider mines. Even with the arvils, the map has good flow.

Oh man I beg you to finish Dinora. I know you have a full plate of UT stuff to do and a life to live. I would really love to see that map in rotation on the server. Hell add it now and work on it later when people give feedback. We can enjoy it while its in que to get pootified.

Thank again for all that you do!
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captainsnarf
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by captainsnarf »

I think a big part of it comes down to the mino.

If the mino is on the map it's gonna be bigger. everybody wants the mino and other toys so we end up with a lot of big maps. I think this is how we got here.
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McLovin
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by McLovin »

This was a fun small map that I remember. This is from DW's SpamVikings server. Is there a public domain version available we could get?

Image

There is another map that is small that I remember, but I haven't found it anywhere yet. It was a flat 2D square fenced in area with maybe 2 guard towers on either side and shallow trenches. It resembled a real junk yard with trash maybe, barbed wire I think. A combat and fight level. Lot's of junk and stuff in the middle to hide behind. Don't remember there being any tanks or vehicles, so maybe this is a death-match level. It was so small that everybody just went for it, especially on a full server. Not that I'm a fan of death-match, I actually hate it. But I do remember it being small and a fast game. Lots of jumpin monkeys for sure.
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captainsnarf
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Re: Maps are too big

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Enyo
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by Enyo »

TotalBurn wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:29 pm Pooty I appreciate all of your work you put into mapping/editing. I dont play much on the server mostly cause no one is around all morning and afternoon etc. It sucks. There is a group of omni fans that only play for a small window each day. It happens to be the times when Im not avail.
You could always check out the CEONSS server. It's in Europe, so they're on much earlier than the OMNI crowd. Downside is your ping will be around 100+ and most of their maps are more death match style with nodes added. There are some good vehicle maps too though.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain
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TotalBurn
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Re: Maps are too big

Post by TotalBurn »

Enyo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:24 amYou could always check out the CEONSS server. It's in Europe, so they're on much earlier than the OMNI crowd. Downside is your ping will be around 100+ and most of their maps are more death match style with nodes added. There are some good vehicle maps too though.
Thanks! Im gonna check them out. I dont mind the ping issue. I love the idea of more DM style play. Even though I am not good at it, I love the action.
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