Vehicles in play/maps

Discuss and provide feedback on Maps.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by pooty »

captainsnarf wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm It's also one of the reasons I think masterbath is one of the favorite maps. It's mostly stock UT.
There's ton of other stock UT type maps.... Bitchslap, Dreamus, Steelmill, Spiffengrad, CaptainGordon's etc. They hardly get played. I like them. I've been "toning down" the newer maps... Even some that I put on here recently, like ArtilleryHill, ArenaofEvil are pretty close to "stock" Randomizers are kind of the place for over the top OP, or one off maps like MassDestruction.

That being said here, the player base mostly likes Tanks. They will vote DJY, AJY, Nevermore all day long. If there's too many flyers they complain...even about Falcons and Dragons (much bitching about Dragon 8/9 camping on Minus before I put in the jumppads on some versions). Sadly, much of the player base prefers 2D play vs 3D. And if you wanna hear howling, put a map out without "fully loaded weapon lockers"...yep..avrils or no bio with the mino and there will be mucho bitching. I agree its nicer when getting an Avril/Battery Launcher would be be a strategic move.. I even did that on several maps where you could go get the upgraded Avril--the Battery Launcher either no one got it (only a few here actually review a map to learn it..they just ask in game chat "What's on this map? Where's the deemer? etc.) or because of some of the vehicles it didn't make much difference.

I think slowing down some of the flyers is a good thing. Its better for the engine/hit registration IMO, and better for game play. We can have flyer focused maps, but they won't get played often (see Slated, or Magic Isle )
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by pooty »

Okay so I did some digging.
Avril rocket speed: 2800 UU (UU is the unreal unit its basically the unit of measurement)
Battery Rocket speed: 3000


Dragon: 1800
Raptor: 2000 (From what I can tell most of the raptor type fliers have this for maxspeed (Falcon, Wasp, etc.), their manuverability, including acceleration is vastly different though. Same with Mantas, and Predator/Reaper
Wyvern Max Speed: 5000
Starbolt 1.0 Max Speed : 6000

Missle Tank Rockets: 9900
Mino Ground Speed: 1000
Mino Tank Shell: 19000

So I think that we should for vehicles limit it to the stock fly speed, 2000, except in few very rare cases. Even then, mappers (me) should be careful about placing said vehicles.
Terminator
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:49 am
Server Sponsor: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by Terminator »

Last night on MTMU Randomizer I got to use the Heavy Goliath, its a real powerful tank. I think its more powerful than the Hydra. It also shoots straight like the Goliath MKII. If you spawn at a node or a core and you see the Heavy Goliath, definitely take it.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by pooty »

BattleBikes are on DowntownXL. That map while very pretty is quite heavy from a fps/render, its not the battlebikes its the map.
I'll look to add the battlebikes to a couple of other maps--likely ones we don't play much in the hopes that it makes them more popular.
One suggestion was MeadowLand, which is wide open and not lots of stuff to run into. I think that might be a fun edit with some of the other newer vehicles too.
User avatar
captainsnarf
Posts: 2632
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:51 pm
Location: Washington
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes
Contact:

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by captainsnarf »

It seems like the net code might be a little off on the battle bikes? Where the server says my bike is and where my PC says it is seem to be two different places sometimes. Sometimes starbolt fire interval goes real slow. So does csbomber. The problem with the bikes feels similar, except it's the maneuvering.
User avatar
Enyo
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by Enyo »

captainsnarf wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:05 am It seems like the net code might be a little off on the battle bikes? Where the server says my bike is and where my PC says it is seem to be two different places sometimes. Sometimes starbolt fire interval goes real slow. So does csbomber. The problem with the bikes feels similar, except it's the maneuvering.
That's the type of behavior I experienced with the Battle Bikes last night. I'd be running in a straight line in the middle of the road, then suddenly I'm sideways and running into a wall.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by pooty »

Likely. They play pretty well offline, or just one person on the server. I didn't pull the code from them, just loaded up the file (which was already on the server BTW). Is there a fix for that in the code, or is it something we'd have to figure out?
The Bikes are kind of cool, but I don't know if we should spend a bunch of time on it....
I hope to put a few on something more terrain based like meadowlands (or JY) to see if that helps. On DowntownXL even at higher net speeds I only get ~70-80 fps, where even on Minus it gets to 120 or so...
macintoxicated
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:46 pm

Re: Vehicles in play/maps

Post by macintoxicated »

captainsnarf wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
Enyo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:33 am After playing DryIce with all those new super fast flyers on it, I have to agree Pooty. It may all be a bit too much, especially when you're in the mino and the Reaper can just spam you with exploding rockets making it impossible to see anything, much less be able to hit the damn thing with lasers. Some of these new flyers, especially the helicopters, are breaking gameplay dynamics and I think are turning a lot of players off.

You were there last night when we played Dria Randomizer and there was a lot of grumbling about the OP and hard to hit nature of the newer flyers. Then, after the first couple rounds there was a mass exodus of players. In about 30 seconds we went from about 12 players on each team down to 4.

I think we need to be careful in adding too many new toys too fast. While many of us like new things and feel like it keeps things fresh, it's obviously turning some players off. I saw an old post somewhere recently, I think in a referenced post from the old forum, where Carpe and someone else were stating how sad they were that ONS no longer resembled the game they use to love. And that was well before we ever took it over.

As much as I enjoy some of the new flyers, I even feel like some of this new stuff is starting to feel like shades of the RMD server where they got super carried away in creating new extremely OP weapons and vehicles all the time for their own enjoyment of working on such things, but it was to the detriment of the server as a whole and people quit playing there. The RMD server owner is a huge dick too though, as in extremely ban-trigger happy, so that surely had something to do with its demise to. Just a word of caution.

Maybe instead of adding a bunch of new OP vehicles, we should shift focus to just fixing the vehicles that have been here a while but still have issues, like snarf did for the badgers. The Hurricane's hit box is still jacked up where tank shells go right through it from the side. And the whole rolling camera thing when the mino or levi get hit with bio goo. Those seem like long overlooked issues that maybe our new "vehicle specialist" can figure out.
All of the new toys definitely broke the balance. It's why I occasionally throw out a vote for vanilla Torlan. It does a lot of things right.

1. AVRiL is a separate pickup.
2. Sparse vehicles, makes turrets useful
3. vehicles have balance with strengths and weaknesses, pedestrian vs vehicle has a chance

It's also one of the reasons I think masterbath is one of the favorite maps. It's mostly stock UT.

It's funny hearing people complain about 'classic' minotaur being weak. We keep going bigger and bigger. Today most maps have AVRiL in weapon locker and shock, flak, rockets also. On old maps those things were special that you had to go get. Today WGS nuke is the special thing you go get. When I first modded the AirPower vehicles to fix dropship, I also nerfed predator and reaper pretty severely, but it was to bring them in line with existing flyers. Everybody complained lol. Things like battery launcher helps, but it also sucks that you need a specific weapon. AVRiLs were preferred but if you only had shock rifle you still had a chance. Not so much today vs mino, bio, or even badger. The player health/firepower is no longer in balance with the vehicles like it used to be.
Avril is a separate pickup in the home base only. You can get the Avril at the central lockers.
Post Reply