Map Balance...

[pooty]

Starting a separate topic for this coming from here: viewtopic.php?p=4135&sid=ce0a458dafdd46 ... 9dc9#p4135

So interestingly enough I was thinking of that this week while planning what map changes/updates...
(Partly from being overrun by leon in the starbolt...)

As Enyo mentioned certain maps, link setups, and I'll contend vehicle mix, allow for good back and forth, while others either stalemate easily or once a tipping point is reached comebacks are difficult... Best ones allow comebacks and a chance to win even after getting pushed back.

So a couple of points, from a map/node perspective, I think having a couple of paths to get the core open is needed (vs. one node choke point), as well as perhaps a "cutoff" or two. The map terrain/layout comes in to play here: sight lines, travel times, obstacles.

Vehicle mix: Certain vehicles can "break" the map. Mino, MAS, Powerful flyers (Predator, Omega, Ifrit, Dragon, GoatSucker, MirageVulture/Warhawk, even Starbolt) can wreak havoc on a map. Our Omni Development staff (hehe) has made great progress on balancing out the 100+ different vehicles we have, but the real trick is getting a good mix on a map. This really only works with good play testing--and experience...I can say from my early map effort maps were either too OP or too vehicle heavy, a good map has correct mix (anti-air to balance flyers, fast vs. slow, etc), as well as correct spawn times -- having a dragon, mino respawn too quickly can also kill the balance. So far it takes me about half a dozen versions to tweak it just right... sometimes more sometimes less.

I've been thinking that maps often play better with fewer vehicles (with some exceptions like Randoomizers, MegaArena and MassD), so that there's teamwork and thought to strategy... do you sit back with mino, cautiously move forward, or go 100% Beetchucker? Where's the best spot? Which on newer maps, there's time to learn where most of us know where to go on Minus.

Lastly I'd say please provide feedback on the maps, be patient (mapping often takes hours) and play test. In some cases I feel we "give up" on a map because the first few edits were crappy (and that's on the mapper/me), or its just lots of the players don't like change. To me one of the best parts of a new map is figuring out a good strategy (like keeping mino near core in NiVa Valley where you can hit 3 key nodes).

[captainsnarf]

I know we aren't supposed to steal maps, but the MTMU-Nightwolf version on CEONSS is quite a bit different than ours and I think would be good to mix in and pootify it.

Can we cut all the extra versions of MTMU, Nevermore, and junkyards? We really only need one of each.

[McLovin]

...
Can we cut all the extra versions of MTMU, Nevermore, and junkyards? We really only need one of each.

Those are fighting words. Don't even suggest it. If you don't like a map, in the wise words of Sarge, "Don't play it".

[pooty]

I know we aren't supposed to steal maps, but the MTMU-Nightwolf version on CEONSS is quite a bit different than ours and I think would be good to mix in and pootify it.

Can we cut all the extra versions of MTMU, Nevermore, and junkyards? We really only need one of each.

We can ask CEONSS if they will share it...

No. Haha.
So there's maybe one version of Minus that can go, the Kamek version (its not much different than pootylicious version). So for Minus there's
Minus-pootylicious/kamek (more traditional)
Minus-TMU randomizer (very few flyers, mostly tanks) - quite popular
Minus-Kitchensink (every vehicle I could find pretty much) - quite popular
Minus-MegaBadgerArena (abomination) for some reason popular.
Minus-BadgerMeUP (can go in the trash)............... oh wait sorry McLovin, we can keep it as its also pretty popular.

On JY front
DJY, AJY (Traditional, mostly the same really with minor vehicle changes, no missle tank on AJY, and Hammerheads replaced iwth wasps).
DJY-TMU-Randomizer (very few flyers, mostly tanks) - quite popular
AJY-Randomizer ((every vehicle I could find pretty much) - quite popular

Nvm
Classic NVM (one of the most popular maps, wouldn't want to change/remove it.
NeverMore-YEEAHH (newer vehicles, and traversable hills) - seems to be love it/hate it map (mostly because too many players don't understand why the goat sucker is so powerful). I think vehicle mix could use some tweaking

I also want to remove some of the crappy maps...mostly the older ones we never play -- some are pretty good just need updating... in fact there's several updated ones we don't play often.. I think we should use admin's choice more often to break the repeat cycle of playing same shit every night. Even at map rotation of 15 we seem to always have the usual ones available...

I think I'll rename a few of them-- using TMU (Tank Me Up) to show those are more tank focused.

[captainsnarf]

I think we should use admin's choice more often to break the repeat cycle of playing same shit every night.

yes, we should force it sometimes

[McLovin]

To me removing maps is akin to book burning. Please don't. But sometimes I like playing plain-jane maps without all the new vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, I love all the work that has gone into new maps and new vehicles. We all really appreciate the efforts the development team is doing. I'm promoting freedom of choice. Please don't go all Putin on us and dictate what maps can be played or not. Removing maps is removing choices.

[pooty]

Only rule for removing if is the current edit is pretty bad...and really never gets voted.

We have several maps that haven't been played at all since last admin "map reset" (over a month ago I think). Heck half the time I can't always remember what map was what. (Like ZeroImpact the other night)

[captainsnarf]

The idea of reducing the current map list size is to get more maps played, not less. I still think there is a paradox of choice happening.

If you have 10 most popular maps and 50 unknown maps, the unknowns hardly get played. Then compare when you have 10 most popular maps and 5 unknown maps. The unknowns will get more play and become known, maybe even become new favorites. Then sneak 5 more in

The last time I played ZeroImpact was before Omni

[YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH]

To me removing maps is akin to book burning. Please don't. But sometimes I like playing plain-jane maps without all the new vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, I love all the work that has gone into new maps and new vehicles. We all really appreciate the efforts the development team is doing. I'm promoting freedom of choice. Please don't go all Putin on us and dictate what maps can be played or not. Removing maps is removing choices.

You keep bringing up this book burning... I dont think applying a moral about censorship has much to do with deleting maps in a video game.

[McLovin]

If the goal is to play all the maps, increase the count-down to 50. ALL MAPS WILL BE PLAYED

...
Then compare when you have 10 most popular maps and 5 unknown maps. The unknowns will get more play and become known, maybe even become new favorites.
...

Play often and vote early.



And to all those whiny bitches saying my gal only allows me to play a few nights a week and I can't play my favorite maps cause they've all been played. "the tiny violins are playing your song", LOL
https://youtu.be/AkFqg5wAuFk?t=111