OP vehicles..

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pooty
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OP vehicles..

Post by pooty »

So several have provided gentle feedback to outright indignation over some of the OP vehicles.

We've heard, and many of these vehicles are featured on Randomizers, especially the Minus-KitchenSink, Dria and non-Randomizer Map MassD. This does allow us to see how those vehicles work in play.
We spent time Nerfing several vehicles (Predator/Reaper; GPolice Flyers, Troop Carrier (ground one aka Armadillo) and others) to make them more playable.

A couple of "offenders" people have mentioned:
Omega - ION Flyer - This is quite powerful, closest thing to a flying mino yet. However, its really easy to kill with another flyer--it isn't tough, and it isnt fast and its defenseless in air to air (unless you get really close up). I think the biggest thing is its like the damn NukeTank on DJY, if you ignore it and let someone run wild in it, they will run the map. This is not much different than the Mino in the dognuts spot. (I also think Omega gets oneshotted by railtanks and twin beams (300hp))

Levis - Particularly the 10000 hp Kraken (which has been all but removed from most maps). - Big, Slow stationary targets easily ganged up on and highly damaged by Bio goo.

Mechs - Many complain these are too powerful. Yet they have less health than a Mino, and less powerful weapons. There are I think some issues with uregs on them, but generally goo or better yet Lightining Gun from far away takes them out pretty easily.

Bringing this up to the community, Snarf and I will happily adjust vehicles if we, as a community feel they are too OP, we don't want to make everything a MassD or KitchenSink style blast fest. But also note those vehicles are used very rarely on other maps, because having 2 or 3 mechs without an Omega and Mino to counter doesn't make sense. We keep that in mind when building maps.
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Anonymous.
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by Anonymous. »

The mechs are actually very weak if you use a LG against them, it only takes a few shots, especially if you headshot them. They are also quite hard to aim in due to the networking-related issues.

My issue with the ion flyer is it's basically a reusable, long-range redeemer. It's defenseless against other flyers, but you can often go unnoticed for long enough to have done massive amounts of damage to the enemy team. Some nerf ideas:
  • Lower its HP to 150 to encourage sparing use
  • Lower its range to prevent sniping
  • Decrease the blast radius to punish bad accuracy
  • Decrease mobility
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

Anonymous. wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:42 pm The mechs are actually very weak if you use a LG against them, it only takes a few shots, especially if you headshot them. They are also quite hard to aim in due to the networking-related issues.

My issue with the ion flyer is it's basically a reusable, long-range redeemer. It's defenseless against other flyers, but you can often go unnoticed for long enough to have done massive amounts of damage to the enemy team. Some nerf ideas:
  • Lower its HP to 150 to encourage sparing use
  • Lower its range to prevent sniping
  • Decrease the blast radius to punish bad accuracy
  • Decrease mobility
Good point on the reusable redeemer. Some other ideas:
[*] massive kickback from the primary fire, launching the vehicle in reverse likely damaging it each time you fire it
[*] primary fire is localized (like the phoenix's alt fire) but with ion cannon strength... possibly with self-destruction?
[*] "rat rod" it out a bit. make it so it's always smoking & has sparks coming from it. Can that be done as an animation independent of damage? It would make it much easier to see.

Yeah I agree with Anon on how you can remain unnoticed. And it's different from something like the Heliux where you have the "what the #@%#?!??" moment, then have time to look up and see where the fire is coming from. Once this thing hits you it's too late.

Also, let's vow to never add this thing to SlatedWorld. I think that map is perfect how it is and this would wreck it.
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by captainsnarf »

I'll happily nerf all the vehicles I've made.

Pallas - reduce the health maybe? It's 3500 now. Maybe 1500 would be better. It can run the map similar to omega if left alone. It's already completely vulnerable to flyers. If you sneak up on it you can kill it with bio or linkgun shaft pretty easily. Most people don't know it takes extra damage from linkgun shaft.

Bombers - They've already went through a few rounds of nerfing but happy to nerf them more. They are pretty versatile. Good against flyers and bombs are really good against ground if you can aim them. I think they might be nerfed enough already but I'm willing to take suggestions.

Mechs - as mentioned, they are extremely weak against LG. Most people don't want to get out of their vehicles to deal with them and so assume they are OP. Except for lightning mech and shock mech, they are all vulnerable to flyers.

UFOs - the original UFO is probably too fast. It would be OK except the server lag makes them nearly impossible to hit, even with shock rifle. Marvin/Q-36 is much slower and easier to hit, but I can nerf it too.

Spanker - this has been nerfed quite a bit. It should be better than the standard badger or it's pointless. It's only really good if you do the combo, which requires some skill.
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pooty
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by pooty »

Agree on the Mechs, I'll jump out of the vehicle to use the LG on them. Works great, as they usually end up still shooting the vehicle while the LG makes quick work.

Code: Select all

 Also, let's vow to never add this thing to SlatedWorld. I think that map is perfect how it is and this would wreck it.
There's a newer lagzilla version Slated that does have it on it.... I was going to finish that map, but haven't had time or energy for it.

I think that the Omega needs some nerfing. I think reduced range and perhaps slowing it down a bit would probably do it. I think we want to make it more than just a one shot vehicle though. But not the long range pop up kill and hide thing.

Pallas I think is fine at 3500, it goes down pretty quick, especially if you get a flyer.

Bombers are probably ok too, you can get them pretty easily with shock or avrils.

UFOs are too fast. I think we need to slow them down. Very hard to hit. I really think that the engine has a harder time keeping up with very fast vehicles/projectiles. We've also slowed down the starbolt, but the way it turns at times it has to hover to turn making it easier to kill but it probably should be a bit slower too.

Spanker is probably ok, IMO.
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH »

Yeah I agree, the Pallas is already pretty easy to kill now. And it's pretty clear when it's active because its projectiles are so bright and colorful.

I dont think your vehicles need nerfing. Maybe slowing down the UFO or making it handle a bit heavier. But overall I think they're good.
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Re: Misc Map Changes Thread..for little glitches and annoyances...

Post by pooty »

Ok so made these changes, both on server.

Omega 2.1 - Range reduced from 20000 (damn!) to 10000. I toyed with 8000 a bit which is pretty short, but lets see how 10000 goes. It still has same 225 hp. No faster or manuverable than a standard raptor. At 10000, its well within shock rifle range and avril range. At 225 its dead one shot from railtanks, twinbeams... and has to get close to hit with the ion cannon.

Helix 1.2 - Range on Main gun reduced from 17500 (so less than 20000 but considerable) to 15000. Same on side guns. This should make sure shock rifle and lasers can easily hit it. I also put a fix in that is supposed to give chutes to the passengers (driver got a chute but if you loaded as passenger you didn't get one :o ). It will also now hover when you're in the side guns as well.

WRT to JY, so the Helix now might be able to climb out of sight, but it won't have range to hit ground targets from there (likely can hit things on hills though). This will let you sneak/recon with it. Plus now if the passengers have chutes they can HALO drop from up high and strafe targets.
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pooty
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Re: Misc Map Changes Thread..for little glitches and annoyances...

Post by pooty »

Both of those got played last night.... not sure I noticed other than the Chute for passengers on the Helix, which did work...so that should be fun feature, on both JY and Dria.

The reduced range on the Omega was noticable though.
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Re: Misc Map Changes Thread..for little glitches and annoyances...

Post by pooty »

So given this: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=413&sid=0241cd74c4 ... 59b3403594
and this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=412&sid=0241cd74c47 ... 59b3403594
And feedback from Enyo in particular that the Omega range is too short.

So there has to be some balance on the vehicle.
ssue with the ion flyer is it's basically a reusable, long-range redeemer.
Sums it up perfectly.

Right now the range is 10000 UU, it was 20000 UU which allowed it to blast shit out of Avril and Shock Rifle range which just doesn't work. Shock Rifles are good to 15000 as is Avril Lock. I propose to increase the range to that, less blast radius. Omega range should be limited to 15000 - ION Blast Radius. This would mean when the Omega can blast something its always in range of most ground weapons (shock, LG, Avril). I think the blast radius is 1000 UU, so I think it will end up somewhere around 14000 UU. Anything farther is to OP. Easy enough like in Xexx's video to blast and hide, land, heal, blast, hide etc. On some maps, that makes the Omega less powerful (eg. Dria where its more wide open), but that's the point.

Its no fun to get blasted with it, when you have zero change to take it out, especially as it wrecks the map. Many other players have complained about it--and its frustrating to get the map flipped by a vehicle you can't see and worse yet can't hit. I really think this vehicle while fun when you're in it..is making people RQ.

I'm also going look into making the streamers more visible. I also wonder if updating the texture and making it more visible (its mostly dark color now), maybe adding a graphic or such to add contrast something on the sides.
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pooty
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Re: OP vehicles..

Post by pooty »

So to sum up:

Omega changes in progress
UFOs need speed/manuverability reduction - when some players are in it, very hard to kill since you get tons of unregs because server can't keep up.
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