Too much minus

Discuss and provide feedback on Maps.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by pooty »

Not sure why pooty put in the effort to modify alien2 with actual aliens when it only got played 2 times.
Makes me wonder myself.... although I did enjoy the challenge of figuring it out.

It is discouraging that there's no real desire to figure out any new maps with the bulk of the players, and sometimes the first/second/third cuts of non Randomizer maps need tweaks, but between the playing the same shit over and over, and general bitching by a few doesn't make me want to spend much time on doing it. There's probably dozen (or more), that I've spent more time on (not even counting learning curves) than we've spent playing. Admittedly some are better than others, but anything that requires learning a new map, new vehicle use, managing the node layout (amazing how many times still many of the players have NO CONCEPT of cut off nodes!)....

The other things that come to mind, regardless of map

- The OP flyers (sorry Enyo) but I think flyers dominating the maps turns off some (many?) players. I mean Enyo/Leon/Xexx in a few select flyers generally ruin the balance and discourages team play (is this the "Enyo effect"? ). These flyers for the most part if you're not really good at aim, can take out 800-1200 pt tanks pretty easily. So you spend 25 seconds driving only to have the same Falcon pop up out of now where, blast you alt-fire for 480 pts twice in 3s and your tank is pretty much dead... meanwhile you're desperately trying to kill it with lasers, score a few hits and then die. The evidence is if that one good player in a good flyer (or the mino for that matter) can completely turn the map and it loses the team aspect... at least mino is easy to find, hit and track vs flyers that zip away, hide behind things. Consider how long it takes a falcon to get from 8/9 minus vs. even the Mino which has huge range -- but has to track basically in one direction, while a flyer can ignore ground obstacles and use buildings for cover.

- Tolerance for different playing styles. Everyone has different techniques, not all are aggressive node hunters, some like to "Leon ambush" or sit back and snipe. Take the "Tribble spot" on Nevermore, personally I think sitting there in a tank and spamming 5/6 isn't something I want to spend the majority of the round on, BUT it is effective at keeping that node under control -- same with zapping flyers with RailGun. I think we should go easy (especially admins) on these styles and reserve the vitriol for some of the really egregious play(s), players (like when Coldcut wastes the link nuke). I think too much griping turns off some players even if they aren't the target.


still hoping for multi-dodge and quad jump.
I'm cautious on this, as this would make the Enyo/Xexx/Anon/Leon/Tater very hard to kill foot vs foot, they are bad enough already...
Maybe one or two days a week, we just lock the top 8 or 10 maps (Djunk, MB, MTMU, etc.) and force the server to vote new maps. I still like pooty's idea of rotating map packs in and out every couple weeks. How hard would that be to implement?

We could try a week or two without all those commonly played maps available. If player attendance drops dramatically, then we know we're stuck playing the same 8 to 10 maps until this game dies.
Map Packs would be all manual, but its not difficult, just delete / upload the maps to the server as needed, which once set up shouldn't take more than few minutes to do (and server restart to immediately load the new map list)
User avatar
McLovin
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:54 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by McLovin »

captainsnarf wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:15 am ..
Why do you care McLovin?  You don't play after 8pm EST and you always play with bots on Minus-BadgerMeUp.  You could do that offline.  You don't  play with the rest of us.  Your vote shouldn't even count.  It's like you live in one state and are voting on issues in another.
...
Inaccurate. 

Accurate: I play  Minus-BadgerMeUp starting at 2000 EDT (that's 8:00 PM).  I siit idle until a live player arrives. I don't play bots. Usually AnKeeDo, phred or reshred shows up. We sometimes get at least a 2x2 going. That goes for 2 games and can last until 2030 or 2100ish. At that point I've had my fill for a while. They like to play Arctic afters. Then leon shows up and wipes the field. I play less and less in the evenings these days. The end is near. LOL
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by pooty »

I play less and less in the evenings these days. The end is near. LOL
It really tends to pickup around 945-10pm Eastern. Too bad it doesn't start earlier, because most times we go at least until midnight, sometimes longer until I have to pull away to sleep for work.
Xexx
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:04 am

Re: Too much minus

Post by Xexx »

I'm in favor of nerfing the amount of flyers and the large open map styles some. They are just taxing the engine too much, there's a lot of "ghosting" movement where hits don't land like they should. Tanks a lot is my favorite map, after all. No need to have flyers in every map.

One guy on arctic camping the no skills with the UFO can dominate the map. I know, I've done it :lol:
User avatar
Enyo
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by Enyo »

McLovin wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:33 pm
captainsnarf wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:15 am ..
Why do you care McLovin?  You don't play after 8pm EST and you always play with bots on Minus-BadgerMeUp.  You could do that offline.  You don't  play with the rest of us.  Your vote shouldn't even count.  It's like you live in one state and are voting on issues in another.
...
Inaccurate. 

Accurate: I play  Minus-BadgerMeUp starting at 2000 EDT (that's 8:00 PM).  I siit idle until a live player arrives. I don't play bots. Usually AnKeeDo, phred or reshred shows up. We sometimes get at least a 2x2 going. That goes for 2 games and can last until 2030 or 2100ish. At that point I've had my fill for a while. They like to play Arctic afters. Then leon shows up and wipes the field. I play less and less in the evenings these days. The end is near. LOL
What he meant was you don't play when it's busy. But it is busy later and later it seems, the old folk got an early bedtime!
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by pooty »

I'm in favor of nerfing the amount of flyers and the large open map styles some. They are just taxing the engine too much, there's a lot of "ghosting" movement where hits don't land like they should. Tanks a lot is my favorite map, after all. No need to have flyers in every map.
Agree, MassD for example is really hard. JY is a bit better with the hills blocking (and anti-portals).


TAL is a great map. I think the Medium sized, and less vehicles are better, we have enough vehicle heavy open maps. The more "enclosed" maps are harder to create/modify though. But if anyone has any good candidates for updates or ONS conversions let me know. I don't think we need another crazy randomizer -- all though I think ZeroImpact would be a good one to give that treatment.
User avatar
captainsnarf
Posts: 2632
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:51 pm
Location: Washington
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes
Contact:

Re: Too much minus

Post by captainsnarf »

I think Valarna is probably the most taxing yet, even more than MassD. It's a big bowl of terrain. There are plenty of spots you can see the entire map but are out of max range of all weapons. You can sit on the hill in a levi and spam their core but they can't shoot back because it's too far (levi has longest range in the game at 25000 units).
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by pooty »

Map wise pretty much the same, but MassD has way more vehicles and 3 Levis.

I need to edit out the levis on Valarna. And I could probably add some antiportals on some portions of valarna (hills) if they aren't there.
User avatar
Super Sanka
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:12 pm
Location: Orlando
Contact:

Re: Too much minus

Post by Super Sanka »

Mega badgers and Minos kill the Valarna too. You can roll up on that cliff near home base and shoot across the map and hit all the key nodes.

Unless it was intended to be a spammy map like massD.
User avatar
pooty
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Michigan
Server Sponsor: Yes
Server Admin: Yes

Re: Too much minus

Post by pooty »

The Omnitaur, aka Min)o(taur with the big splash damage wasn't there..just classic mino, but I can remove it and the mega. Each team gets a Heavy Goliath at core, so that would leave out the big long range vehicles which I think would be fine.

So in some cases you can see the enemy but not hit them...which is a bit different than other maps.
Post Reply