AvRAIL

[captainsnarf]

A rail gun like weapon with limited ammo (1-2 shot) and ~200 damage, to replace the Battery launcher.

Thoughts?

[Enyo]

Are you trying to make Coldcut gizz his pants?

[wail-opentournament]

IMO High-damage hitscan weapons should fall into one of two archetypes:

1. Some kind of wind-up time (e.g. Spartan Laser - https://youtu.be/SO0iZO1B9GA) with a pre-fire tracerbeam
2. Deliver damage-over-time in a sustained way (e.g. Link-beam-type fire with ~1 second of sustained duration per 'Fire' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQAMPXUF1l4).

Without some kind of tell there's no counterplay on the receiving end.

I'm assuming here (based on the name) that the weapon you're proposing has some kind of lock-on mechanic that makes it auto-aim in the way that the AvRIL does.

[captainsnarf]

Hell no, no lock. You must aim. The beam needs to leave a smoke trail or something.

Basically it would be the rail tank gun, but one shot and lower damage.

[Rhamp]

IMO High-damage hitscan weapons should fall into one of two archetypes:

1. Some kind of wind-up time (e.g. Spartan Laser - https://youtu.be/SO0iZO1B9GA) with a pre-fire tracerbeam
2. Deliver damage-over-time in a sustained way (e.g. Link-beam-type fire with ~1 second of sustained duration per 'Fire' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQAMPXUF1l4).

Without some kind of tell there's no counterplay on the receiving end.

This.
I have issues with oneshot hitscans solely due to them having no counterplay or tell. The odin and rail tanks are the only oneshots that I'm fine with, as their "tell" is their orientation due to their slow rotation. As long as you aren't in their line of fire, you are safe and that allows counterplay and out maneuvering, plus its very obvious which direction they are facing.

If a oneshot handheld weapon is added, it should have some counterplay. The problem with a pre-fire tracerbeam for something that can flick instantly in any direction is that a good player can just spend the pre-fire time aimed at a wall or something, then right before it fires, they quickly flick to the target and oneshot them with no warning. I've done this so many times in other games with similar windup mechanics and once you learn the timings, it is so easy to take advantage of. It just adds another step in oneshotting without actually fixing the issue. If there was a way to cap the rotation speed while winding up, then it would work.

A thought I had with a weapon like the Arbiter's rail is make it shoot a slow moving very bright projectile that travels for a second or so before emitting the rail shot in the direction it was moving it. This gives a very obvious tell to dodge and there is no way for the user to cheese the mechanics to get a cheap shot off since there wouldn't be a way to change the orientation after the projectile was fired.

[wail-opentournament]

Hell no, no lock. You must aim. The beam needs to leave a smoke trail or something.

Basically it would be the rail tank gun, but one shot and lower damage.

Alright, misunderstanding the niche you were going for there, then. To me the AvRIL exists pretty much to give a footsoldier a weapon that's basically ineffective in normal combat, but is easy enough to use and packs enough punch that inattentive drivers can get taken out.

Is this something that'd be in a locker, or more like a superweapon?

The main thing I think about here is what purpose a hitscan (anti-vehicle?) weapon serves. If it's got only 1-2 shots as suggested, I would probably try to make sure those were sure hits -- I'd shoot a Tank or Bender. I feel like that's logical, but runs against my assumption about the intent of this weapon -- Something more effective against those fast & maneuverable Mantas & Fliers than your basic AvRIL.

The problem there is, with really limited ammo it can be a bit risky to use those shots on fliers that you're far more likely to miss (esp. because not ping-compensated, so you often need 1-2 shots to dial in manual ping comp).

IMO High-damage hitscan weapons should fall into one of two archetypes:

1. Some kind of wind-up time (e.g. Spartan Laser - https://youtu.be/SO0iZO1B9GA) with a pre-fire tracerbeam
2. Deliver damage-over-time in a sustained way (e.g. Link-beam-type fire with ~1 second of sustained duration per 'Fire' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQAMPXUF1l4).

Without some kind of tell there's no counterplay on the receiving end.

This.
I have issues with oneshot hitscans solely due to them having no counterplay or tell. The odin and rail tanks are the only oneshots that I'm fine with, as their "tell" is their orientation due to their slow rotation. As long as you aren't in their line of fire, you are safe and that allows counterplay and out maneuvering, plus its very obvious which direction they are facing.

If a oneshot handheld weapon is added, it should have some counterplay. The problem with a pre-fire tracerbeam for something that can flick instantly in any direction is that a good player can just spend the pre-fire time aimed at a wall or something, then right before it fires, they quickly flick to the target and oneshot them with no warning. I've done this so many times in other games with similar windup mechanics and once you learn the timings, it is so easy to take advantage of. It just adds another step in oneshotting without actually fixing the issue. If there was a way to cap the rotation speed while winding up, then it would work.

Yea, it's not perfect by any means but certainly better than point-n-click with nothing except refire time to deal with.
There's a variety of dev-side strategies that could be implemented to mitigate prefiring if really necessary, although I think having it at all does bring up the skill floor a lot.

[captainsnarf]

I only use avrils for jumping.

They are pretty useless otherwise, except if you are coldcut or gtku I guess.

With all the OP vehicles the Battery was added, but it's pretty useless too. You can't even avril-jump with it. It's useless against anything fast, and way over powered against slow vehicles, especially if they are retreating...zap,zap,zap,zap,zap,zap,zap,zap... I've had one do 800+ damage to me

So I thought maybe replace the Battery, since it doesn't really work as intended. It's also not on every map.

1 shot, 200 damage to vehicle, 50 to player, rail tank beam with smoke trail/long fade, no zoom or minimal zoom

[YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH]

How about the Avril MKII? That thing is a beast.

Whatever is decided, we should make sure you can't just toss the weapon with one shot left and pick up a new one with full ammo.

A handheld Odin-like cannon could be cool. With the charging time, and the smoke like after your shot. But like said earlier, your ability to quickly aim in any direction could make that OP in a hurry. Maybe add an ion red laser while it charges so the enemy can see you beforehand? Or make it not dish out a ton of damage, but a shitload of knockback? You can still kill a flyer if you push them into the wall/ceiling hard enough?

[Rhamp]

What about a handheld basilisk-like laser? Super long range hitscan with alt-fire zoom, and fires for as long as the user has ammo or holds down the button. The damage increases the longer the beam stays on the same target, allowing for some counter play to avoid it before the damage ramp gets too high. Maybe the beam starts out doing ~1 dps, then after hitting the same target for ~5s, it does ~50 dps. It could be implemented that hitting a target applies stacks to it that multiply its damage and if the stacks aren't reapplied quickly, they decay. Not too much damage to melt tanks, but more than enough to swat fliers that stay within the field of fire. Max ammo can be configured to ensure it can kill a flier but not a tank. Since the damage ramp would be calculated based on how long it has been hitting a target, it would avoid the windup cheese without imposing any skill floor limitations. Any stain can fire this thing and swing their mouse wildly and do a few points of damage, which is better than what they currently do.

[Super Sanka]

Never underestimate a stain's ability to stain. That being said I'm definitely open to a hand held railgun like from Quake @200 dmg single shot. Shooting fast flyers (especially falcon,Star bolt etc) can be impossible. With this at least people will have a chance on foot.