Let's talk lasers.

[pooty]

So much whining about the lasers on the Link Tanks. Which got me to thinking, we standardized ranges, except for a few lasers (mino, kinghh). But I wonder if we should limit the lasers damage. Several of them fire fast 0.1, do serious damage ~200 pts/sec, and are pretty much hitscan, spammy lowskilz weapons. I think we should set a top limit, and maybe set a few ranges. And maybe I am just tired of getting picked off by lasers in < 1s on foot. Some lasers have a damage range (min/max) and it randomly determines on a shot what the damage is in that range.

For consideration, fire rate (seconds), damage range per shot, avg damage second, min/max damage/second, any damage scaling etc.
Hurricane Turret: 0.2, 35-55, 225,175/275, momentum scaling 0.75 - reduces momentum
Armadillo / TC Turret: 0.2, 40-55, 250, 200/275,momentum scaling 0.75
Centaur: 0.25, 25-25, 100, 100/100, VehicleDamageScaling=1.5, so for vehicles that becomes 0.25, 37.5-37.5, 150, 150/150 -- Thats right does more damage to vehicles than players on foot.
BioTank: 0.33, 30, 90, 90/90, VehicleDamageScaling=1.5, so for vehicles that becomes 0.33, 45, 135, 135/135
BioBadgerTurret: same as above
KingHellHound: 0.18, 20-22, 116.66, 111.1-122.2, VehicleDamageScaling=1.5, so for vehicles that becomes 0.18, 30-33, 175, 167/183
FireTank/FlameTank, FireBadger: 0.18, 18-21, 108.33, 99/122, VehicleDamageScaling=1.5, so for vehicles that becomes 0.18, 27-31.5, 162.5, 148.5/183
HeavyTank 1st Turret: 0.5, 55, 110, 110/110
Link Tank 2.0 (the one we've had for decades): 0.25, 12-20, 64, 48/80 (Pretty shitty)
Link Tank 3.0: 0.15, 25-35, 200, 167/ 233, Linkers increase this by *1 per linker (so one linker is double, three is triple) fucking link tanks are beastly.
Heavy Link Tank 3.0: 0.15, 30-50, 266, 200/333 (okay so this one is OP), Linkers increase this by *1 per linker (so one linker is double, three is triple) fucking heavy link tanks are super beastly.

FLYERS:
Phoenix: 0.13, 12-15, 103, 92-115
Starbolt: 0.13, 25-28, 203, 192-215,

So I think we need to nerf a few things:
Set Max Fire Rate to something like 0.15 (slower fire rate renders better on the server, bolt was 0.1 and server had trouble keeping up even after bandwidth fix)
All Lasers have vehicle damage scaling, so on foot takes less. (We don't need Anon/Sanka, killing you with TC lasers in 2 shots (.4 seconds)
Set Max Avg Damage to infantry to like 100-110/s
Set Max Avg Damage to Vehicles to like 200/s (slightly less than hurricane today).

[captainsnarf]

It was one complaint about the new link tank lasers. The old link tank sucked and nobody used it. It was beefed up so it can compete with the rest of the vehicles.

We should just nerf everything. Stop the arms race.

Nothing should kill you in 1s. Every vehicle on the server does. Any vehicle that is not a stock vehicle is better than any stock vehicle. The stock vehicles were balanced against the players. Now players have no chance against a vehicle. Stock vehicles have no chance against any vehicle mod. They are all too good, too powerful, too much health, too much damage.

I was sitting there lobbing avrils at the PercesMAS on AJ yesterday, contemplating the futility of it. Avril does 200 damage, PercesMAS has 8000 health. I would need 40 avrils to kill it. My entire ammo load out was not enough to kill it.

It shouldn't be like that. I complain that ONS has turned into vehicle death match, but there is no other choice. Even the lowly badger is better than any stock vehicle.

We should add a mutator that makes all vehicle health and vehicle damage * 0.5 or similar. Nerf all of them except maybe the stock vehicles. It's either that or mod like 100+ vehicles to nerf them separately. We have maps with weaker vehicles but nobody votes them. They want their minos and mechs and whatever. They can't compete on skill so they grab the most powerful vehicles instead, and then we complain stains took all the good vehicles. It really shouldn't be about vehicles. That's part of it but not the entirety, or it shouldn't be.

[pooty]

We should just nerf everything. Stop the arms race.

Yes, that's what I want to do with the lasers. Set a max, use vehicle damage scaling, so that people on foot have a chance to do somethign vs. taking 200+ < 0.4s seconds --- instant death.

Same should apply to miniguns. Its fun to vehicle death match vehicle vs. vehicle. No fun to be on foot and basically instagibbed by most vehicles.

To me anything hitscan should do less damage to infantry, maybe set all to VehicleDamageScaling to 1.5?

Code: Select all

Nothing should kill you in 1s. Every vehicle on the server does

Goliath generally will too, on projectiles, which you have to aim/lead and have reduced fire rates -- so if you're surprised by a tank = boom, dead -- other wise you have a chance to dodge etc.

PercesMAS on AJ yesterday, contemplating the futility of it. Avril does 200 damage, PercesMAS has 8000 health.

True, but at least it doesn't to a jillion points of damage either, slow big, hard to turn, and missles are pretty weak.

They can't compete on skill so they grab the most powerful vehicles instead, and then we complain stains took all the good vehicles. It really shouldn't be about vehicles. That's part of it but not the entirety, or it shouldn't be.

Complain about the balancer all day long but put say leon/anon in linkmech vs. some stain on the other team... and it won't matter. Its ok to have a (or two or three) power vehicles per map. The Randos are fun since they are like big spam box, but 100%, most maps voted as just spam fest with tons of power vehicles. Maps that require some thought and/or teamwork get complained about. Maps that don't have OP shit get complained about "Gee just a raptor", "Where's the mino", "This xxxxx is fucking weak".

[pooty]

So
Max Fire Rate 0.15 (Phoenix needs its own package made, but the flyers are low priority mostly for better effects/server perf.)
All Lasers have vehicle damage scaling, so on foot takes less. Set default VehicleDamageScaling=1.5
Set Max Avg Damage to infantry to like 100/s (So 25 pt shot at 0.25s, or at .15s 15 pts. works out to 100 pts/sec) (Badger Minigun does 150/s 15 pts at 0.1 fire rate -- but has reduced range (15000 vs 20000)
Set Max Avg Damage to Vehicles to like 200/s (slightly less than hurricane today).
Link Tanks while linked still might be scary --- teamwork FTW

To me right now the first priorities are
Hurricane lasers
Troop Carrier lasers
Link Tank lasers
That's doable, I might just do it today.

[captainsnarf]

Sounds good, and sorry for my rant. Thanks for doing this pooty!

[pooty]

Hurricane 2.0 Turret Lasers 0.2, 16-27, 107.5 ,80/135, momentum scaling 0.75 (same), VehicleDamageScaling=1.8 , 193.5, 144/243.0
Was Hurricane Turret: 0.2, 35-55, 225,175/275, momentum scaling 0.75 - reduces momentum
So overall, Big reduction on foot 225 previousl to 107.5, some reduction on vehicles 225 vs. 182.5

Armadillo 2.0 Turret Lasers 0.2, 16-27, 107.5 ,80/135, momentum scaling 0.75 (same), VehicleDamageScaling=1.8 0.2, 27-46, 182.5 ,136/231
Was Armadillo / TC Turret: 0.2, 40-55, 250, 200/275,momentum scaling 0.75

(Minigun has the default DamTypeONSChainGun which had VehicleDamageScaling=0.360000, so I fixed this too. Minigun should be more powerful against vehicles, less against players!)

[YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH]

Yeah I think linking should stay strong. Hell, I’d buff the link guns when linked (primary fire)

[pooty]

Damage / shot Player Damage / sec Vehicle Damage Damage / sec
Shots Rate Min Max Avg Min Max Avg Scale Min Max Avg

Hurricane Laser 5.0 0.20 16.0 28.0 22.0 80.0 140.0 110.0 1.80 144.0 252.0 198.0
ARmadillo Laser 5.0 0.20 18.0 25.0 21.5 90.0 125.0 107.5 1.80 162.0 225.0 193.5
Armadillo Minigun 10.0 0.10 11.0 19.0 15.0 110 190.0 150.0 1.35 148.5 256.5 202.5
LinkTank Laser 5.6 0.18 14.0 22.0 18.0 77.8 122.2 100.0 1.50 116.7 183.3 150.0
LinkTankHeavy Laser 5.6 0.18 16.0 26.0 21.0 88.9 144.4 116.7 1.50 133.3 216.7 175.0

Here's what going on the server.
Remember for the LinkTanks, linking the tank adds a multiplier to the Damage, so for a LinkTank Laser with one linker multiply each linker by 0.6, .7 for Heavy and add one. So For linktank3 one linker = 1.6x damage (240), two linkers = 2.2x (330), three is 2.8x damage etc. So if the front link tank has Double Damage it all doubles! Teamwork FTW.

[pooty]

Yeah I think linking should stay strong. Hell, I’d buff the link guns when linked (primary fire)

So one linker on LinkTank, powers up each gun on the link tank various multipliers, but the primary fire is usually at least 1.0, the plasma turret is usually 1.0. I toned down the laser turret a bit, but as you can see below it can be considerable.

On primary fire, one linker = double damage.

[pooty]

FLYERS:
Phoenix: 0.13, 12-15, 103, 92-115
Starbolt: 0.13, 25-28, 203, 192-215,

And not nerfing the flyers. They still should be pretty easy for a good aim to take down. Bolt has very low health, speed and damaging is its forte, not defense. Given the below reductions on lasers, I'd say this improves the flyers since you wont have Hurricane doing 225 avg pts/sec..now only 198. Will likely make difference...with the flyers movement. For those that always fly straight at you (I think laser monkey did that like three times and I felt like Sanka or Nautikal)..easy to shoot down, but move like Enyo in a Falcon on a mission and its going to be tougher.

And now people on foot aren't as easy pickings either. Add keg/shields it make take a full 2-3s to kill now, and you have to keep on a moving target.