Someone went all Junkyard, Forest Junkyard

[captainsnarf]

I like the variety. That is the point of the randomizer, for better or worse. If you want a fair, balanced map, design it. Don't use a randomizer. Adding groups to the randomizer might work but then it's not really random. It's psuedo random, but at least you could design it better.

And I think adding more flyers to counter flyers is an arms race. You'll end up with all flyer maps. Sure there would still be other vehicles, but nobody will use them if there is a flyer available. Trucks should counter flyers.

[4Doors]

I re-read the spoof map description Pooty made and got the idea to make an AI voice-over of it a la map/gamemode tutorial lady. Cleaned up some of the structure of it to make it feel more like it could actually be in the game.

(spent $2 to be able to make this btw )

https://www.jammable.com/conversion/unr ... 0-57P4Y_bG

[pooty]

And I think adding more flyers to counter flyers is an arms race. You'll end up with all flyer maps. Sure there would still be other vehicles, but nobody will use them if there is a flyer available. Trucks should counter flyers.

This. If you just have an endless supply of power flyers, then ground vehicles are really irrelevant. 1 Falcon is more than enough of a match for the mino. 2 Falcons and an Aurora and even a Levi goes down fast.

as all it takes is a player with good aim sitting in a twin beam turret to oneshot them.

Only from a Ballista or perhaps an Alligator. Twin beams don't usually do enough to onshot. Rail Tanks yes. Trucks no. Most Raptor types have 325-350. Most twin beams 300 (stock bender is 225).

I'd argue that if there is a power flier, there should be more power fliers to offset it. Otherwise you end up like maps like nevermore where the game is decided based on which 3 players have the fliers.

And any of those games will be decided on which 3 players have the best flyers. Or which team has Roger to sabotage the cores. Its just one step removed from Mino Me Up. You know so if someone hector's your mino the game isn't decided by one player in the mino... get the point.

To me part of the gameplay is managing the vehicles and strategy vs. simply throwing hordes of vehicles at the enemy (or mindlessly driving off the table like Gareau on table top last night...). Say there's one Falcon and your is dead, it becomes a priority to kill the enemy's, much as it is a priority to kill the mino. I really think the longer spawn times would be better than nerfing, and better than having the falcon swarm. I am using the falcon, but that could apply Aurora, Phoenix, Bombers, etc.

[pooty]

https://www.jammable.com/conversion/unr ... 0-57P4Y_bG

Pretty sweet. Yes, it could easily be an in game track.

[Rhamp]

I'm all in favor of having more vehicles + increased respawn times, as Fewer vehicles is not the answer, since all those maps are hated and never played. It still makes focusing down high priority targets impactful, but doesn't cause your team to insta lose if a stain grabs a power vehicle. Like instead of 1 falcon there are 3, but their respawn timers are tripled or even quadrupled? Sure 3 might be a bit op right at the start of the game, but if your team dedicates resources to focusing them down, then the other team is out of falcons for a good 1-2 minutes. There becomes a more strategic element of keeping a power flier in reserve instead of sending all of them straight at nodes and a meaningful impact for focusing them down. ONS should be a team game, not whose teams' hotshot pilot carries harder.

Also, I feel like too many of the randomizer maps are vehicle spamfests, where taking out a power vehicle doesn't feel impactful since it just respawns a few seconds later (I'm open to further increasing the respawn times on HSH, they could probably be bumped up another 50% to make eliminating enemy vehicles feel more impactful). Games are decided on how aggressive teams are in throwing vehicles at nodes until they take them and its almost never worth it to play defensively when you have the option to attack a node. Swatting a starbolt should feel impactful, but it doesn't since it just respawns a few seconds later. Killing a mino is great, but it'll be back in a minute.

[wail-opentournament]

I'm all in favor of having more vehicles + increased respawn times, as Fewer vehicles is not the answer, since all those maps are hated and never played. It still makes focusing down high priority targets impactful, but doesn't cause your team to insta lose if a stain grabs a power vehicle. Like instead of 1 falcon there are 3, but their respawn timers are tripled or even quadrupled? Sure 3 might be a bit op right at the start of the game, but if your team dedicates resources to focusing them down, then the other team is out of falcons for a good 1-2 minutes. There becomes a more strategic element of keeping a power flier in reserve instead of sending all of them straight at nodes and a meaningful impact for focusing them down. ONS should be a team game, not whose teams' hotshot pilot carries harder.

Also, I feel like too many of the randomizer maps are vehicle spamfests, where taking out a power vehicle doesn't feel impactful since it just respawns a few seconds later (I'm open to further increasing the respawn times on HSH, they could probably be bumped up another 50% to make eliminating enemy vehicles feel more impactful). Games are decided on how aggressive teams are in throwing vehicles at nodes until they take them and its almost never worth it to play defensively when you have the option to attack a node. Swatting a starbolt should feel impactful, but it doesn't since it just respawns a few seconds later. Killing a mino is great, but it'll be back in a minute.

I haven't played on the server enough to notice but isn't it possible to define different respawn times per different vehicles? It seems logical when randomizing to allow (server-side) customization of the vehicle factory's respawn time based on what vehicle class was selected to be used.

Nice-to-have might also be allowing specific vehicles to have team / global messaging. When important vehicles go down, an announcement could play + UI popup ("Enemy <X> Destroyed!"). That might arguably be a lot of information better suited for communication, but then again the same could be said for a lot of things (e.g. which nodes are being attacked, built, etc) which generally ONS does present in a formalized way.

[Rhamp]

On randomizers, each vehicle type has their own respawn time that can be set for core respawn times and node respawn times.

I think only the ultimate factories, like the ones on Tek that spawn the beefy tanks and the raid boss levi, have the capability to broadcast messages on vehicle death. I was thinking of adding that to the raid boss levi, but I decided that the global minimap marker for it was good enough.

[pooty]

On randomizers, each vehicle type has their own respawn time that can be set for core respawn times and node respawn times.

At least on JYs, I usually make the node times a bit longer than the core for tanks and such. Idea is the core is where you come back from, and driving a tank from the core to a node on JY is about 15s... And of course the stronger the vehicle longer the respawn.