Mass Destruction...

[Rhamp]

MassD-RhampedEdition-V4-TEST on the google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s9_sSv ... sp=sharing

I fused the existing RhampedEdition with the TMU version. It should be a much slower paced version where tanks are actually viable as something more than a flier swatter.

-There are now only 5 fliers per side and they all spawn at the core. Wraith, mirage vulture, wasp, chupa, and predator. This flier loadout makes it so there aren't going to be arbiters and dragons camping in the fog sniping shit from across the map or an endless stream of falcons zerging nodes. There are still plenty of boards, noderunners and mantas.

-The tank loadout at the core is omnitaur, ion, troop carrier, hurricane, bio tank, rail tank, fire tank, mobreaker, vampire tank, heavy goliath, heavy link tank, classic mino, odin, hospitaler, flak mech, and the 15k hp perses. This is much less powerful compared to the existing V3 version which had 3 classic minos and that stupid ass vortex tank. There are also assorted scorps and trucks in the core, so there is always going to be something to get into.

-The OMFG pickup is a respawning pickup similar to the nukes. Once someone picks it up, it can't be picked up by anyone else for a few minutes. If its still too oppressive, it can be removed, though this gives players on boards a goodie to go counter the enemy tank line.

-The primaries have the backside of the tower completely open. This means tanks will be able to actually hit the node and contribute to the ONS part of the game instead of being forced to only dm. The center two nodes still require a smaller vehicle to reach, unless you are really dedicated to wedging a mino where it doesn't belong.

-The nodes now no longer have any fliers. The center two nodes have no vehicles. The vehicles that spawn at the primaries are much easier to grab now that the backside of the tower is completely open.

[pooty]

On the server.

[Rhamp]

V5-TEST on the google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AfTbQ5 ... sp=sharing

Changes:
-Replaced the Perses with the Pallas until the Perses crash issue is fixed.
-Replaced the Novas with the fixed versions.
-Removed the starbolt from the red core. It was a leftover from the original and blue didn't have one.
-Added some fliers back to the tower nodes. Both primaries each have a falcon and venom and the center nodes have an aurora and ifrit. There are now plenty of fliers.

[pooty]

On the server.

[Rhamp]

So it seems there is plenty of anti air now, so the odin at the primary can be removed.

Pooty was mentioning that it played better as a TMU and I agree. I think all the deemers at the node towers need to go. Its too easy as a flier to fly in, grab one, and instantly take the node out, which is what made the fliers so op. Its the guy in the light problem from HSH but 10x worse. Without the deemers, the fliers currently on the map aren't the stupidly op ones that can instantly take the node, so the defenders could actually defend. For once the fliers felt balanced. You'll have to push with your tanks to eliminate the anti air before taking the node, you can't just fly straight at the node in open view. The core can still have a deemer since that requires time to go out of your way to grab and then go across the map.

I think increasing the respawn time of all the vehicles other than the trucks and boards would be good. The core has a lot of tanks, but if their respawn time is a minute or two each, it would make taking them out impactful. Making killing vehicles a priority instead of just rushing nodes makes for more interesting gameplay. Your team could focus on pushing a tank column to take their anti air out, then once its down, run in with your fliers and take the node before they respawn.

[pooty]

So a couple more thoughts.

Typically at the cores you want ~10 vehicles. Could be 8 or 15. (I won't count a couple of boards/scorps as starter/last resort vehicles)
On this map I'd lean toward 15, there's three "paths" to cover. Of those vehicles, I'd say 3 should be power vehicles, Odin, Mino, Mega (keeping with the Mass Destruction theme), other tanks are fine, even bio, hurricanes etc. But think carefully on Railtanks, and flyers. Think about how to balance OP flyers with anti-air, especially with Hitscan anti-air (odin, rail tanks, arbiter). The laser based anti-air isn't quite as effective as the lasers take more time. Too many fliers and the terrain and towers don't matter, and I really like the hills with tanks/line of sight makes for better play IMO.

And I'll disagree with Enyo that it needs MORE flyers...those just turn it back into the original where who ever gets Omega/Starbolt can run the map. I don't like it when one player "runs" the whole map in a power flyer. I thought the pace we played was good, lots of back and forth vs. say the original where 1-2 boom can happen quickly with levi/mino spam..

And if the core runs out of vehicles, too bad, too sad your team sucks. Its not necessarily a bad thing, otherwise one team would likely never take the primary because there's just too many big vehicles constantly coming out of the core...

Most nodes should be much less power, maybe a more powerful vehicle at the primaries, and perhaps a "reward vehicle" at the center nodes, but generally the closer to middle less power vehicles get loaded out.

Also, as Rhamp points out, longer spawn times are good too, we do want a comeback to be possible, but with too many vehicles here's what I've seen too many players, and often shitstains, just constantly take any vehicle charge straight ahead and get killed, won't matter if there's 10 or 20 they will just deplete them. IMO, less vehicles should hopefully make you think a bit more before wasting them.

[Rhamp]

I think the amount of fliers and anti air was good. Enyo was bitching because he couldn't solo carry in a flier due to all the lasers, which is a GOOD thing. A single flier should not be able to just dive in and take any node they want. The positioning of ground vehicles actually mattered since they were able to keep intercepting enemy fliers.

The problem was the nuke spam, where if a single flier got through, they could grab the deemer and instantly kill the node.

The number of vehicles should be fine if all of them are changed to take a minute to respawn and the big tanks take multiple minutes. It won't be an endless stream of vehicles coming out of the core the whole game, and it won't be the junkyard situation where your team loses a few engagements and now you are stuck at the core with no vehicles. There would be incentive to eliminate the enemy vehicles before pushing nodes and killing vehicles would make an impact since they'd take minutes to respawn. If the odin is swatting your fliers out of the sky, grab a tank and kill it, then you'll be odin-free for 2-3 minutes.

[pooty]

Longer respawn on the bigger tanks, eg. 2-3 minutes is good.

Flyer balance is ok. But remove the Odin all together, A rail tank is fine. Remember dark levi has rail guns too.

Yes, limit the Nukes. Keep link nukes, keep the nuke at the cores. Ditch the ones at the nodes.

Those would be quick changes that would really help I think.

Enyo was bitching because he couldn't solo carry in a flier due to all the lasers, which is a GOOD thing.

Agreed, nothing is worse than one player in a single vehicle dominating, whether its a falcon or a mino, although mino is easier to kill.

[Rhamp]

V6-TEST on the google drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bElRLq ... sp=sharing

Changes:
-Replaced the odin at the close primary with a king hell hound. There is now only 1 odin per team.
-Replaced all the nukes at the nodes with battery launchers. The ons painters I kept since there is still some counterplay to them since you can just shoot down the bomber that gets called in, plus it requires time to mark and time for the bombs to fall instead of it being an instant delete.
-Added grapple guns to all weapon lockers
-Increased all benders and some link tanks respawn time to 30s (scorps/badgers/mantas/boards are still all 15s)
-Increased mino respawn time to 5 minutes, classic mino to 4, and odin to 3.
-Increased all other tank respawn times to 2 minutes.
-Increased both levi respawn times to 5 minutes.
-Replaced the myLevel noderunners with the omni twinbeam and minigun versions
-Replaced the myLevel boards with the CSTrickboard version
-Increased the wraith and mirage vulture respawn times to 5 minutes.
-Increased all other fliers respawn times to 4 minutes.

The core has the big nuke and big painter. The link nuke is off in the corner in the mountains by the far primary. These are the same as they've always been. The OMFG pickup is in the same place its always been, but it works the same as the HSH version, where only 1 person can pick it up and then it takes a minute to respawn.

If your team throws away all your fliers at the start, go grab a tank since it'll be a long time before you get those back. I made the fliers take about twice as long as the tanks to respawn since fliers can get across the map within seconds to start hitting targets while tanks take a few minutes to get positioned.

[YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH]

I'd be curious to try even higher respawn times. Since there are so many friggin vehicles it'd almost feel like "one you lose it, it's gone" and you have to dig deeper into your garage instead of just hop in your favorite two or three vehicles. Of course, that's less fun then... but it might open this map into more of the Command & Conquer gameplay. If any of you have tried those maps before.

Does this version still have the hills?